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September 26, 2005

More on Pimp-Mommy: “Get-It-Over-With” Sex

September 26, 2005 | By | 46 Comments

Predictably, our culture has drifted from Get It On, to Get-It-Over-With. . .

One more thing about the mom who pimped out her daughter and a friend to two men they met at a mall on a shopping trip.

My Brilliant Brother mentioned that post to me and said: “You know, Charmaine, that woman didn’t exactly pimp out her daughter.”

It’s putting a fine point on it, but he’s right. There is another layer of this story that I passed over.

What the mother actually said was that it was time for her daughter to “have sex and get it over with.”

That’s a statement worth pausing over.

While we are all justly horrified at this woman’s terrible lack of normal, human maternal protectiveness, this mother came by her attitude naturally just by breathing the noxious fumes of our modern MTV sex culture. How many degrees of separation are there, really, from this mother who charged into criminal neglect, and the mothers who communicate the same “get it over with” attitude to their daughters more subtly, but perform a similar role as enabler with their permissiveness?

We’ve spent the last several decades letting a sniggering, crude, crass, adolescent, Get It On approach to sexuality overtake our sexual mores.

Yeah, I’m talking about you, Wonkette. And you, Amanda Marcotte.

Virginity, once respected and valued as a mark of self-discipline and self-respect, is now often viewed skeptically as a burden and an embarrassment.

We’ve morphed into the Get-It-Over-With culture. And women are the poorer for it.

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Comments

  1. Eli’s Stomp Around the Blogosphere

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    Faith at the front talks about the importance of Reservists and she knows about them firsthand.

    Independent Sources blabs about one of Eli’s favorite corrupt ladies – M…

  2. Nice Charmaine, nice.

  3. Holy crap, Charmaine, I missed this story. WTF?? Why is this woman not being locked up for YEARS? Sitting in the room while her child is having sex? You can bet the punishment would be a LOT worse if it were the girl’s father!

    And what about the other girl’s mother? If I were the other girl’s mother, you’d have to lock ME up to keep me from going after that sick woman!

    “Get it over with.” That’s SAD. That girl wasn’t even given a chance to learn about respecting herself as something worth more than a cheap pickup at the MALL.

    You’re right, of course, that the prevailing culture of hoochies and hos is to blame. It’s all wink, wink, we can have casual sex too because we’re liberated! Well, that’s fine, if you’re an adult and you can handle the reality of casual sex with STRANGERS, but it’s NOT fine to brainwash kids into thinking that’s what “cool” people do. And no matter how liberated and empowered women pretend they are by having casual sex (as men have always been encouraged to do), the reality is that people simply don’t have any respect for it, like it or not. Men don’t want to have sex with women like that because they respect or care about them, it’s because they’re a sure thing. They’re just more fun than a blow-up doll, but no more meaningful.

    Personally, I think Cox, Marcotte, etc. USE the name of “feminism” and “liberation” as cover for their own lack of self-respect. Sex sells, after all. (You think they’d have half the attention they get if they didn’t sex up their sites for horny men? HA!) What hypocrites.

  4. If “we’ve spent the last several decades” becoming a sexually crude society, does that mean that the 1930s are your ideal in this regard?

  5. Can’t stand wonkette.

  6. And it still does NOT excuse the mother for doing such a thing. Of course I know you know that and are jjust expounding the point.

  7. Remainders: I Apologize for All the Teenage Sex

    • Producer “bilks” investors in a “reality” television show about the DHS. That’s Karen Hughes’ job. [DHS] • Killer dolphin alarmist also an expert on crop circles, the sinking of the Gaul. [Gelf] • “Michael Brown, who recently resigned …

  8. Porn liberals single-handedly devaluing the exchange rate on your teenage daughters!

    I had a friend once whose dad gave her an Alpha Romero as her college car. The thing was fucking sweet. But she was kind of careless with it, bless her heart–she smoked in it, which made the leather interior…

  9. Adam

    wow. you are you correct! i mean, whenever i read anecdotal evidence, i immediately believe it! gosh, one woman makes her kids have sex with some guys, and that means that LOTS of 13 year olds must be having sex. REALITY BE DAMNED! who cares that the average age at which kids have sex has been going down over the past two decades, and that fewer teenagers are having sex! this is a great story, and we need to milk it for all we can!

  10. Muffin

    *Snore*. Cause bad things (esp. sex-related bad things) never ever happened in the past, ever.

    Moron, meet clue.

  11. I’d like to see one example of Amanda Marcotte counseling teenagers to “get it over with”, or viewing virginity as a burden to be embarrassed about.

    Or even mentioning virginity outside of responding to nutcases like you.

    I’m waiting.

  12. Matt

    Actually, having gone out with a number of dull women, the idea of dating a woman with an intact hymen does absolutely nothing for me. That doesn’t indicate virtue, it indicates lack of adventuresness and a refusal to take chances.

    Believe me, guys who don’t go out with virgins aren’t missing a thing.

  13. Remainders: I Apologize for All the Teenage Sex

    • Producer “bilks” investors in a “reality” television show about the DHS. That’s Karen Hughes’ job. [DHS] • Killer dolphin alarmist also an expert on crop circles, the sinking of the Gaul. [Gelf] • “Michael Brown, who recently resigned …

  14. Thesaurus Rex

    Honey, thirteen year olds don’t read Wonkette. Get your villains straight, here. Britney Spears and Paris Hilton are why teenage girls have no shame or morals.

  15. mike

    I would absolutely hate to marry a virgin. In fact, the worst two relationships I have ever had were with virgins. None of m friends would rather date a virgin. And we’re all successful gen x-ers. The thought of being with another virgin is a complete turn-off. And I am quite happy with my “slutty” (by your standard) girlfriend. However, I don’t follow the logic of how wonkette has absolutely jack diddly to do with a dingbat of a mother watching her kids have sex. The mom’s problems go back to before wonkette was even born. Maybe she voted for Reagan.

  16. another example of the not-so-bright being allowed access to computers.

    sigh.

  17. Vladi G

    $100 says this mother has never even heard of Wonkette or Amanda. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

  18. Wonkette’s shtick has always been to poke fun of the sexual foibles of Washington not to say, “everyone should be this screwed up.” Ana Marie Cox herself has been married for years. Plus, I somehow doubt that the mother was a Wonkette or Pandagon reader. The “get it over with” crowd has been around long before weblogs and has existed on the fringes of pop culture. Even on TV, until quite recently, the “losing your virginity” episode inevitably resulted in the moment somehow being averted and everyone learning a Very Important Lesson.

  19. wow…. way to get stuck on stupid, Mandyites/Wonklettes.

    Good post, Charmaine. Ya nailed it.

  20. Bruce from Missouri

    God, you’re a friggin’ moron….

  21. Adam

    You shopped through the “junior” sections of your local department stores lately? Or even the girls’ sections?

    Who do you think are buying this “littlest slut” outfits for their pre-teens and teens? Ya think JC Penney is making these clothes because there is no demand for them? Hell, JC Penney ran a TV ad showing a young girl in a dressing room trying on a pair of JC Penney jeans, mom comes in and says “no, your not wearing them right” and then PULLS DOWN the jeans lower on the girl’s hips.

    This early sexualization of youngsters, the “raunchiness” that so-called feminists (really gender feminists) have bought into — whre men and women are the “same” but the only way a woman can prove she’s a bit different is by showing her body — is NOT HEALTHY. For men or women.

    Mike, if you think “virginity” or “chastity” or even “discretion” is a problem, I understand why. A woman pretending to have the same sexual nature as a man is a godsend to you. It’s a Hugh Hefner dream. Man as male animal fucking whatever offers itself. Gender-feminists who believe they have to be as casual about fucking as a man are a Hefner-wannabe’s dream.

    Man as something MORE than animal is man who knows his nature needs to be tamed by his values. A male becomes a man when he understands a woman’s sexual nature and needs and commits to them.

    This is why Republicans have more satisfying sex lives than Democrats.

  22. Hm. No opinion on Wonkette, since I just don’t read her. I do have the impression that what she does is tongue-in-cheek. As for Amanda, she seems awfully obsessed with the most conventional type of sex imaginable: plain old “f*cking.” If that were the only thing available to us sexually, I might well be tempted to “get it over with.”

    As for the outside culture being obsessed with sexuality, that might be a function of what you see and where you are. My sense of the 70s was that there was a lot of pressure to get started. And I did want to “get it over with.”

    I needn’t have bothered, really, of course.

    If I have a daughter, the message will be: a) this process usually involves getting someone else’s biological fluids injected into you, and b) there he is, afterwards.

    So, a) make sure you trust him, and b) get someone who’s a good conversationalist. Or, you know: it’ll be a long night in the bad way.

  23. $100 says this mother has never even heard of Wonkette or Amanda. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

    Talk about dumbest thing ever! I’ll raise you, oh, about an f’n zillion dollars. So what? Nobody blamed Wonkette or Marcotte for what happened; they were used as an example, a symptom, of the cheapening of sexuality.

    DUH.

    I’d like to see one example of Amanda Marcotte counseling teenagers to “get it over with”, or viewing virginity as a burden to be embarrassed about.

    Don’t read Pandagon much, do you? Maybe not counseling teenagers, but mocking others for placing a higher value on their bodies than only for a cheap thrill? PLEASE. If you haven’t seen that, you haven’t been reading.

    Shorter Wonkette/Pandagon bots:

    Oh my God, what a prude! Stupid fundie! I would never do a virgin, ewwww!

  24. Okay, let’s rewind: an insane nutjob of a mother sells her daughters for sex, and you blame…blogs?!?

    WTF?

    How is this the fault of anyone but the insane mom and the sick bastard man? I don’t recall Amanda Marcotte’s “Pimpin’ Your Daughter for $$$” post or Wonkette’s “Anal Sex With Middle Schoolers” post or even Paris Hilton’s 13-year-old-sex video.

    This has nothing–nothing–to do with raunch culture, and everything to do with a mother who has utterly failed her children. Trust me, absent Paris Hilton, one hundred years ago, this mother would’ve been marrying her daughters off for the dowry. At least now she’s under arrest.

  25. Surely you can provide a few citations indicating why Amanda and Wonkette are directly resposible for this woman’s parental incompetence.

    I’d especially like to see the posts where Amanda and Wonkette condone the pimping of one’s teenage spawn for kicks.

    Yes, the story is incredibly outrageous and infuriating, but you’re pointing fingers where? Get real.

  26. irontiger

    The mother was more than likely trying to give

    her daughter an early life lesson that would

    prevent her from seeking any more sexual partners ever again, or at least until she was out of college.

    That lesson being that sex with men is for the

    most part completely unrewarding and unsatisfying, especially with guys like you Jack and the rest

    of the right wing assholes who agree with your crappy opinions. Once burned twice wary.

  27. kac90b

    Great. Another stupid person with a keyboard. How you could possibly link Amanda or Wonkette with this belies a serious lack of critical thinking. No sane parent would tell their 13-year old to have “get-it-over-with-sex.” This mother should be jailed for life. But neither should one hold onto it beyond all reason merely to use later as barter for a ring and a promise of happily ever after. Women who use their precious virginity as a bargaining chip are whores of the worst kind.

  28. Lisa

    Hum. Wonkette wouldn’t have readers if she didn’t sex it up for the horny men. I guess that’s why a 21-year-old female like me loves her. Because, you know, she makes it OK for feminists like me to have sex. That’s right. Oh, and her last name, that too is soooo on target. Thanks, Cox.

  29. Mloaf

    Come to think of it … if a mom’s gonna punt on the idea that her daughter’s gonna wait for marriage (which may be preferable but extremely unlikely) … why is this not a good idea? Less chance of violence, trauma, disease, feelings of inadequacy … assuming the girl’s also on board and not being pushed into it too early … I’m into it. Pass my email along to the mom.

  30. Thanks for putting yourself out there and making it clear that most conservative women don’t have a clue about liberals or feminists. This is not an example of a story that we would embrace– you really think any of us would approve a mother prostituting her daughter? Are you sick? Are you high?

    You don’t understand feminists or liberals, you don’t listen to us, so don’t pretend you have some kind of insight into the way we think or what we believe.

    As for blaming MTV or society on this story, um, where do you get that exactly? People have been doing screwed up things like this– treating the sexuality of their children, slaves, etc. as property– for thousands of years. People don’t need MTV or crass commerical culture to be inspired to do repulsive, abhorrent things. Have you studied world history at all? People have done many horrible things and they didn’t need the influence of MTV or liberalsim to “make” them do it. Get a grip.

    You are one of the laziest, least critical thinkers I’ve read in a long time. Does the word scapegoat mean anything to you?

  31. The Dark Avenger

    Are you going to tryout for the Reed Richards

    character in the Fantastic Four sequel?

    Cause you’ve done a lot of stretching here,

    and I’d hate to see it all go for naught.

  32. This is obviously the result of a breakdown of family values! It can only be remedied with prayer in schools, and blaming the gays (and Wonkette).

    [/snark]

    It’s digusting, but one event does not an epidemic make, nor does it imply any causality.

  33. brneyedgrl80

    You know, to make it sound like feminists have no self respect for themselves because they decided to have sex “before” marriage is ridiculous. And to connect two bloggers to a single case that they had nothing to do with is even more ridiculous.

    I was a virgin until I got married. I was raised by a mexican, feminist, liberal and agnostic mother. I was raised without a strong influence of religion (I was baptised catholic, but never practiced) and yet I was able to “hold onto” my virginity till marriage. Hmmm… how could that be? I was practically raised pagan. The reason being is because I was taught about the positives and negatives about sex at a young age (like 5 years old) and then made my own decisions. Pure and simple.

    Oh, and just like mom, I’m liberal, feminist and I prefer athieism.

  34. Norah

    Amanda and Wonkette talk about sex. Apparently Charmaine thinks this is tantamount to pimping out one’s teenage daughter.

    I see a couple of other Pandagonians here, getting called “moron” stupid” and “not-so-bright”, but none of the name callers explain why. Would anyone like to drop the second-grade insults and explain WHY merely talking about sex is the same as selling your child’s body?

  35. Charmaine, you are brilliant. At least there are still a few of us in this world that believe that sex isn’t the two-people equivalent of burping: nothing but a fun bodily function. You know, I was never crazy about my friends going home with that idiot at the bar who hit on every girl within his line of site, and cheated on every girlfriend he ever had. The last way I would think of sticking it to the chauvenist pigs was to become one of them. Its the antithesis of womens liberation–we’re just becoming the men we hate.

    Thanks for writing this. Its good to know that more people think this way.

  36. kac90b

    E.M.: A lot of us have non-marital (because we’re single) sex and it’s not with that drunken idiot at the bar. Having sex without the “benefit” of marriage does not make one an indiscriminating slut. Maybe your friends are, but most of us are not.

  37. E.M.

    Maybe it doesn’t make you an indiscriminate slut, but mostly because you missed the point of what I said. Equality isn’t achieved by becoming even with the lowest common denominator of the opposite sex, and turning myself into nothing more than a walking vagina. Please. Just because a bunch of men have anonymous sex like the nasty pigs that they are doesn’t mean that women have to have anonymous sex and act like nasty pigs to be equal to them. If you want to have sex outside of marriage, have sex outside of marriage, that’s your call, but don’t think that being a “slut” makes you a liberated woman. It makes you a sex slave, in a metaphorical sense. It proves to those pieces of crap that women ARE good for nothing besides cheap sex.

    Lets face it, modern feminism doesn’t care that women are in the workplace, that the gender gap is closed, that I have an education or ambition, or feel that I have equal opportunities to my male counterparts. Modern feminism is stuck in a 1960s-era rut, constantly looking out for signs of a “patriarchy” that doesn’t exist. Guess what? The 19th Amendment isn’t getting repealed, vacuum cleaners have all but extinguished the need for a woman to stay at home all day, and we are generations removed from the expectation that little Sally is just going to grow up to be a mommy and nothing else (though a mommy isn’t such a bad thing to be). The only thing left for the feminist movement to cling to is this idea of having sex like we were men, and that that is supposed to solidify the equality of the genders. Well, news flash–men who have sex like pigs are pigs, and women who have sex like pigs are pigs too. There’s equality for you. Don’t avoid it, embrace it. Except that nobody wants to admit it.

    There are fundamental differences between men and women, though liberals are wont to acknowledge them. Women cannot divorce sex from feeling, so creating a culture that does so inevitably harms women. Women are different from men, and they won’t ever, even for one second be the EXACT same. Its impossible. Sure, you can gender bend, dress in those androgenous Calvin Klein fashions and cut your hair, but you will always be a woman, and he will always be a man, so we learn to accept it, acknowledge that we both make contributions in separately good, but fundamentally equal ways, and move on with life.

  38. for what it’s worth, i’ll bet that i couldn’t pimp “charmaine” out if i offered cash, drinks and blow to the unfortunate gentleman at issue.

    ew.

  39. Hmm. interesting that almost none of the Mandy/Wonky defenders haven’t tried to address any of the points I made ..

    ok, zoe makes a reference to “raunch” culture

    and dismisses it

    Once more — MTV or JC Penney or even Mandy and Wonky do not DRIVE the culture, they are surfing the wave. The Bratz toys get purchased because ADULTS buy them for their little girls. Moms, who for one reason or another, feel they MUST live through their little girls or make their girls their peers rather than a healthy parent-child relationship are pushing and perpetuation the “raunch” culture.

    It’s kind of the flip side of Dads who so live through their little boys in sports that too many youth sports now mirror the worst of professional sports…hell, dads start fighting each other and have been known to KILL each other at sports games. Kids get ulcers trying to be anything but what they are CHILDREN

    No, I haven’t seen Mandy push sex on kids. Frankly her “I need a man for cock” attitude is rather embarrassingly pathetic. But it is symptomatic of a ‘raunch’ culture added to one where gender feminists, having promoted for years that men and women are the same, don’t quite know what to make of girls that figure the male model of sexuality – we like to fuck anything that moves – is what they have to ape in order to be accepted as “the same.” It leaves the only way to even differentiate themselves from men by exposing more of their bodies. “See? I swear like a man, I act like a man, I fuck like a man..but I got boobies! Let me show them to you.” (ie Girls Gone Wild)

    For first wave feminists (ie equity feminists), THAT is NOT what the movement was about.

    Along with the blurring of men/women has been the blurring of the boundaries of parent/child. The mom cited is an extreme and criminal case, but what about the moms that dress their 7 y/o’s like hookers? Or the moms who want “to be cool” with their teens and allow the kids to drink and have sex at parties at their homes?

    Nothing “caused” this woman to do what she did to those girls. She is solely responsible for her own actions. She CHOSE to do evil. That’s what freewill and morality is all about.

    And she’s just an extreme symptom of much of the popular culture.

  40. Lars C.

    E.M. –

    If you’re trying to think a point through and use it to engage in a discussion with others who may disagree with your viewpoint, it is not necessarily the best tactic to use loaded phrases like “have sex like pigs.” These sorts of phrases do less to make your point strong, and do more to call attention to your own unhealthy relationship with sex. So, at the end of your post, I’m not thinking about how the logic of your argument checks out, which should be the response that you are looking for. Instead, I’m wondering why it is that you obsess over pig sex.

    This is the point – if conservatives would like to make arguments about sex and sexuality that people would listen to and be persuaded by, they should try to stay away from broad, unprovable connections like the one between the “pimp mom” and liberal political bloggers. Also, they should stay away from unsettling, descrediting non sequitirs like “pig sex.” If your goal in writing and making arguments is not to make your viewpoint understood, or to attempt to persuade others to sympathize or agree with you, then please make your blog subscription-only, so that your attempts at non-conversation can be savored only by those that already share your opinion.

  41. JT

    Yeah, things were much better back when people abused 13 yr olds and no one heard about it. Things were so much more innocent back then, and thirteen year old girls were working in dangerous factories like they are supposed to.

    “And she’s just an extreme symptom of much of the popular culture.” Huh? People who torture and/or kill their kids to rid them of Satan are extreme symptoms of much of religious culture in America. Does that make religion bad? You can take both statements or neither, but if you take just one, you are mentally crippled.

  42. I liked Lars’ contention that Charmaine and her defenders are painting with too broad a brush, and that Charmaine’s blog should be “subscription-only,” so that only people who agree with her can read it. That’s an interesting way to deal with disagreement.

    For the record, I’ve seen a bit of generalization on both sides, and it appears that a lot of people are talking past each other.

    As far as “pig sex” is concerned, you might take a peek at some of the porn that’s marketed over the ‘net: a lot of it is not so much a celebration of sexuality as a pageant of hatred toward women. The men who make these videos style themselves as con men who “trick” the women into having sex. That is “pig sex,” and it doesn’t really matter who is tricking whom: it results in a higher quantity of sex in the world, but not necessarily a higher quality.

    And then there’s this:

    Thanks for putting yourself out there and making it clear that most conservative women don’t have a clue about liberals or feminists. This is not an example of a story that we would embrace– you really think any of us would approve a mother prostituting her daughter? Are you sick? Are you high?

    You don’t understand feminists or liberals, you don’t listen to us, so don’t pretend you have some kind of insight into the way we think or what we believe.

    This is an example of a lot of lefist “critiquing” I see of conservative opinions: a tendancy to take things terribly literally in order to avoid addressing the larger point behind the exact wording/examples used.

    The point is that chicks are better off focusing on quality vs. quality, and that pretending female sexuality mirrors male sexuality can often be a prescription for deep unhappiness.

    And, BTW, I spent three decades as a socialist feminist, so don’t tell what I do and do not have “insight” into.

    Chamaine dropped the word “virginity,” and her opponents immediately jumped to “virginity until marriage.” The fact is, her post doesn’t suggest that the girl wait until she’s married: it just suggests a little restraint. We might take that to mean “until she’s emotionally ready,” but few of the Amanda-defenders here chosen that interpretation. Why? Why the insistence on black/white thinking?

    As for the Wondette issue, I think I disagree with Charmaine there. I *do* think there is utility in making some sites “adult.” I watch the Sopranos. I read Jeff Goldstein’s blog. I don’t think the word “adult” should simply be a synonym for “pornographic.” And I’m against making the entire web “child-safe.” I’m not a Wonkette fan, but I do think there’s a place for adult jokes, adult content, and adult themes–not all of which, BTW, are going to be sexual or violent. But I don’t want to live in a culture driven entirely by the needs of children.

    Surely there’s a middle ground.

  43. JT

    Why do you not any of the other things I mentioned?

    Or am I to assume that silence in addressing the cultural points I have made is because you CAN’T address them…at least honestly.

  44. To those here who question Charmaine’s intelligence…have you read her biography?

    Dumb she aint.

    And your personal stories are very “quaint” but since guys (and women) like you are part of the problem, I don’t see you ever getting the “big picture.”

    You, my lefty friends,are the blind misguided ones. Sad, but true.

  45. Norah

    Just because a bunch of men have anonymous sex like the nasty pigs that they are

    Whoa. Hi, EM. Didn’t know you had a hate for a men.

    I’m not really sure how the topic of sex before marriage was introduced, since this post is more about how pimping your teenage daughter is bad. Obviously, that mom is sick and is harming her daughter. No liberal would say otherwise. But I must object to your suggesting that having sex outside marriage makes one some sort of pig-slut.

    Guess what? I have no problem with waiting until emotional readiness. That’s what I did. I never intended to wait for marriage, since I didn’t know when that would be, or if it would be at all. And since I don’t take the view that my body is a wrapped lollipop or an ice cream cone but rather my own to be shared with whomever I choose, I had no moral qualms.

    I was never promiscuous, but I had sex outside of marriage. Wah. So what? I’m happy and happily married and I have a great life. Sorry to spoil your fairy tale.

  46. Thoughts on the roles of adults and children

    Charmaine at Reasoned Audacity caught a lot of grief for her post commenting on “the raunch culture.” In the comments, the always reasonable Attila Girl makes this valid point:I *do* think there is utility in making some sites “adult.” I…

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